![[IOP]](http://images.iop.org/cws/icons/themes/phw/colophon-small.png){kind=icon}
By Louise Mayor
Have you got what it takes to crack the third conundrum in the Physics World at 25 Puzzle? You can catch up on the previous two instalments here. #PW25puzzle
You are trying to find a phrase with the pattern 3, 6, 2, 8, 8. The puzzle answer is the six-letter word. We hope you enjoy the joke.
QIGC-YLKQDQRIKR INTPRDLKQ DKYGTSDKA IWYBPKAI PKS YLOOIGPRDLK ICCIYRQ
QDHA-EJSDPWRSEKJ
RKPPDRSEKJ SK LDJQESY-ATJRSEKJWH WMMPKXEIWSEKJQ AKP IWJY-DHDRSPKJ QYQSDIQ
IMJQHN OPTPY JF PVY YDYEPMJH ITO WX T OPJEVTOPAE GYPVJN
Enter your answer here
Please DO NOT give the game away by posting your answer in the comments. You can check whether your answer is right using the box above. Good luck!
i’ve made all kinds of links but the answer is just too elusive! has anyone completed this yet?
i too feel like im really close to solving it…i dont understand the link between the code and what comes after you make the connection about where the code is leading you to.
What you have to do is apply simple logic and then it becomes quite easy. Think inside the box folks 😉
i just cant see where the 3,6,2,8,8 bit comes in…
number 2 (chuffed with that!)
Ah I enjoyed that one. stage 1: Spreadsheet, Stage 2: PowerPoint and Stage 3: google.
Great fun thanks!
I just can’t see how to link the solutions for the cryptograms to the picture (pretty sure I’ve got what the picture is showing) and get that phrase out of it…
Number 4, not bad!
Number 6… a somewhat tenuous link…
Agreed, #15.
The location all the points on the image sort of looks like the coastline of Wales.
Agree. Hasn’t offered any enlightenment, though.
Wales? Or do you mean whales? Chomp, chomp/snap, snap.
Any hints on what kind of cipher that cryptogram uses?…there seems to be a lot of very long words plus all those hypens…hmmm.
Simple substitution
been staring at this for hours and i’m still stumped. how are we supposed to combine the picture with the answers to the crytograms? I get the lines but not what to do with them!
same here, i assume that the 3,6,2,8,8 are the number of letters of the “phrase”, but i dont see how to go from the picture to anything meaningful…
i have strings based on the picture and have paired them based on the cryptogram, but i can’t see how to make it make any sense. maybe i just don’t have enough physics knowledge?
i want to clarify with anyone who has finished:
where its stated that “phrase with the pattern 3, 6, 2, 8, 8. The puzzle answer is the six-letter word.”
does this mean that you get a phrase like:-
the proton is somewhat constant (so 3, 6, 2, 8, 8 letters) and that the “answer” is the word proton. yes/no answers please…
if anyone can subtly hint at how to relate the strings gathered from the picture to the cipher solutions, that’d be greaaat. if they don’t relate at all i’m super stumped.
I have lines and have figured out the three sentences but don’t know how the 3,6,2,8,8 links it all together.
Ditto, frustrating isn’t it. Solved the codes,
googled the connection to dots, and got what I think must be the picture, but can’t get the phrase. Maybe I’ll dream it tonight.
i don’t believe anyone’s actually solved this. past getting the crypto and relating it to the picture to get the order it doesn’t have a logical next step!
Does anyone know if the Greek symbols actually have any use in figuring out the solution or are they just decoration?
#18
Answer to John D’s “proton” question is: yes.
Are we able to pull the words for the 3,6,2,8,8 from the cryptogram sentences?
Or are they coming from somewhere more random?
Do the greek characters even mean anything? Is it essential for getting the phrase?
With you, Andrew. The Greek letters appeared to have functionality in keying to the phrases – but not sure if they have additional functionality. The G, f and infinity symbols are out of place but that hasn’t clued me anywhere so far. I had assumed I would find the phrase repeated in each of the reference materials but the only likely phrase I could find doesn’t appear to yield the answer. Very frustrating…
So pleased with 22nd! Long time and much frustration in the final step to 36288!
Do you have any hints on how to proceed to the final 36288 step?
What do I do after I deciphered everything? I got no clue on how to proceed
Is it just me or are there a couple of typos in the third encrypted line?
no typo
There were typos in the third line – I pasted the original content and it has since changed.
I feel sure I’ve figured everything out except the final phrase. Do I need to be a physicist to make the final leap?
#98 I think you do need to be a physicist. I finally remembered a physics in-joke I heard almost half a century ago.
I can’t do this one. Are there three separate ciphers or are they all the same? I don’t seem to be getting anywhere
separate from what I can tell
I have strings of symbols too but no idea how to get anything meaningful from them… help?
I’ve got three decoded lines and have made the links on the image, and now I’m stuck. Do I now have everything I need to find the solution with enough clever googling or is there another puzzle solving step I’m missing?
put the image together with the decyphered lines and you’ll get the symbols I’ve been stuck at since dinnertime. The connection between them is not difficult but I can’t get the 3 6 2 8 8. I suspect I know the 3 2 8 and 8 too.
spent 2 sober hours getting nowhere so went off to get drunk and watch the football, came back and solved it in 10 minutes! #31
The joke looked good on paper
Brilliant!
Number 34. Team effort. Today’s job was getting the answer, tomorrow’s is working out why. Thinking Roy Walker’s catchphrase comes into play.
#36 to get it right. Very stimulating. Looking forward to puzzle #4.
I got the answer right but i am wondering if the pattern of the phrase stated is actually correct. To me it should have been 3,6,2,7,9. Any coments?
#35
I found the answer but not the phrase.
So, I’m still missing the joke
ok, I just found the phrase too
Any hint?
Both text & image give clues for both word & phrase. The text is far more important. Ιgnore the Greek letters on the image.
what is the letter near Kohn in image ?
is it h-bar ?
Yes. If you click on the image you get a larger version where it’s easier to see it.
U solved it ?
#42, wow what a slog that was. spent a few hours on this yesterday and had solved all of the puzzle elements but couldn’t get the phrase, slept on it and it pops into my head first thing.
Not yet. I don’t know where to look for that final phrase. It must have something to do with image and three sentences but i’m stumped.
The last sentence is easy,but how about the others ?
Try googling all the names in the diagram together. There are some links between them that should lead you to find the 3 sentences.
I’m calling time on this, my brain can’t cope any more. If anyone fancies emailing me the solution then please put me out of my misery before I head to the stupid step. xx486@outlook.com
It all seems to have clicked in the last 10 mins. I’ve now got the 3 lines, which has led me to decrypt the diagram, which has led me to a common link…but I can’t figure out what the phrase should be. One…last…push!
As with several others here, I’ve solved all except the phrase, with several possible phrases ruled incorrect. When I get there, I trust I’ll be kicking myself rather than putting a metaphorical boot into the compilers.
what is the relation between Alex zunger and Walter kohn ?
anybody know ?
Don’t want to give away too much, but you’ve got the pairing wrong there, I think. Though this is from someone who still hasn’t got the final phrase, despite decoding the codes and getting the links.
Think the connection between Alex and Walter is the “sideways M ” symbol to the left of the ‘a’ […so much for my understanding of physics and symbols! duh ]but thats me just trying to join the dots!
I agree with Steve Hillier… and I am also in that position
Can anyone who’s found the answer confirm if it can be deduced with logic from the phrases and picture or is it a cryptic clue?
Can the final phrase (the 3,6,2,8,8) be found using the 3 sentences deciphered previously?
There are only two 6-letter words in those and neither seem to work.
First solve the phrases. Then find links from the phrases to the picture.
#47…. incredibly satisfying to get it!
I am sooo close, anyone give me a little hint? (steven.blythe@baesystems.com)
My lunchtime sandwich must have helped. And google. I’d say you definitely need the right search to get the final step. Nice story, new to me I have to admit.
#55 – that was a lot more frustrating than the first two! A lot hinges on hitting the right search in Google!
#58 – Agree that hinges on a precise google search.
#56 Got there. There is a piece of additional knowledge that is essential to the answer.
actually #54. fat fingers on phone keyboard!
Can someone please put me out of my misery, i have got so far and yet the answer still eludes me.
macattack_@hotmail.com – please someone email me it.
May not have got the answer, but on the plus side, I’ve learnt a lot of chemistry today!
#69 – my favourite number. Oops, wrong website.
Just wanted to say thank you to those who emailed me. It is great to be able to say someone even gave me a hint which pushed me to that final stage. Great fun, hope there are more to follow! Thanks.
#77, thanks to Steven Blythe.
And i was so close in the beginning…
Hi John
I too have been so close for so long, I guess I am missing something not being a physicist? Can you forward the hint from Steve B; I have done all the deciphering but cannot get that last leap. DoH!
John, I guess my brain has atrophied; pls reply if you can to
stephencwade@aol.com
Stumped!
Like others here I have cracked the ciphers (did them in reverse order), and then drew in the pairings on the diagram. (Noted the ABC hint in diagram). Looks like a star – man with a stick, or rotated bow ties if you connect outer edges. Even joining the dots in letter order did not help. No clue as to the 36288 piece.
May have to email other folk here for a further nudge in the right direction.
Not ABC – leave them as they are on the picture. That’s what you’re after on Google.
Thanks K, even then it was not easy to find! Not a stellar puzzle.
I wasted a lot of time thinking about the shape of the picture (star, pentagram, lines).
Forget it, the overall shape has nothing to do with the solution, just a few points do.
Thx for the hints, but sadly still not really making headway as the google searches are either turning up US social fraternities or an avalanche of stuff mainly around Quantum field theory. Nice wiki page btw http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_letters_used_in_mathematics,_science,_and_engineering
Not a scientist so my ‘O’ level physics not much help!
Just much better at logic puzzles than googling!
Thanks Steve. A bit of a slog that.
#80. Thank u Steven.
Line by Line
search
draw line
search
answer !
I think my brain is fried for this one. If anyone could provide a hint to the phrase it would help ease my mind.
djgrimx@gmail.com
Thanks to those who helped me get over the last hurdle.
#95
84th!
Hint please bsamra@me.com
i can’t do it
HINT
The easiest cryptogram to solve is the third, followed by the second.
You will need to Google to link them to the diagram.
It may be easier to solve the first cryptogram after linking the first two to the diagram.
You can then solve the diagram.
To complete and get the phrase you’ll need Google again.
#91 – Got there eventually. Somewhat tenuous links in there but some of the comments helped a lot.
Thanks All.
Same time next week then?
#94 thanks to the help and hints. And yes, you did need to know some physics so that’s why I got 95% in two hours and the last 5% answer in two days! DoH, back to school for me.
#116
That last step… *shakes head*
Here I was reading all kinds of stuff I haven’t thought about since university, and then it’s a blooming joke.
LAST STEP PLEASE HINTS
hey guys ,
i have been looking at thing for a day now and can’t see the six letter word , i solved the cypher and drew the lines on the picture in about 15 min but fter that blank . can anyone give a nudge in the right direction please my email is matei.ionut.cristian@gmail.com , thanks
At last ! And probably last at #121. Good joke.
Wow that was hard! #120, started over an hour ago. I guessed the answer after four or five other attempts, having decrypted the sentences, worked out the connections, and found something on the image, but am not exactly of the significance …
If you don’t get the joke, then you’ve got the right six letter word, but perhaps not the real phrase – or why it’s the right answer.
123 thanks for the help
#125. Finally I found the phrase and the answer after a huge amount of time on Google! You don’t need to know any physics – you just need the right search terms for Google.
I have now solved it – #122. I agree with the comments by Ruth. I have to say that I am a little disillusioned! However, I look forward to puzzle 4.
It’s not that bad. It’s a serious and very important scientific paper. Surely one can also have a little joke too.
#134 at last – thanks to additional hints and google. Hope other puzzles are not like this.
That link is far too tenuous. I was a bit closer than I thought.
Sog Worldline said:
“#80. Thank u Steven.
Line by Line
search
draw line
search
answer !”
For me it’s more like:
Line by Line
search
draw lines
search and search and search
pull some hair out
search some more
admit myself to the place with rubber rooms!
talk to people that aren’t there
generally go crazy
I just can’t seem to make that last leap.
Like many I have the three phrases.
I think I understand the relationship between the phrases and the diagram.
I still do not understand the point in the greek letters. Anyone please e-mail the required google search. My brain hurts.
allenlewin@yahoo.co.uk
All the parts and a one result final search, but still missing the joke! Sad…
Had the answer last night based on a crossword inspired guess (right but for wrong reasons). Got the reason for it today.
Unless I missed something it seems the only way to get the final answer is via Googling and hope. I want several hours of my life back please.
Read all the comments I think there are enough clues to put you on the right track.
You don’t need physics knowledge per se but if you are not a scientist (like me) you would not be aware of the ‘thing’ providing the answer. You need Google.
I can’t find the final step. Solved until the final step. Hints are super-welcome at markje_93@hotmail.com, thanks alot
Great! Solved it, #142. There is not really any physics/chemistry involved. Happy puzzling
So, everybody says, you need to Google the right thing. Any hints on what is ‘the right thing’???
Stepano, I think many people could offer clues but not within this blog.
Leave an e-mail and clues not acceptable here would be possible.
Finally! No. 143. I have zero physics knowledge so it is possible, but it’s a bit of trial and error with google if you don’t know the joke :(.
I should add, I managed to find it from the clues given here and no additional info, so if you’re stuck I’d recommend carefully reading the thread again for inspiration. Good luck!
If you have reached the final stage and, like me, you are not a physicist it would help if you read “The Big Bang” by Simon Singh. Don’t worry though, it is only about 500 pages long
#146
Thank you Martin for putting me out of my misery. Many, many hours wasted on a tenuous link to the picture at best.
Got the joke but not something I’d heard of before today.
Here’s tip for Googlers.
Combine Still Digging Oct 16, 2013 at 5:46 pm and K at Oct 16, 2013 at 3:06 pm.
Hi all,
Got it in the end, can someone please remove my earlier comment?
Thanks
ok, I give. Can’t make the final leap. Hints please? rob2@vrf.com
well I guessed the right word finally lol. #151.
I don’t think i have the right phrase though, and don’t get the joke.
Driving me mad ( more than 24 hours now!)got the phrases and the lines on the diagram & the link between but CANNOT get the word & phrase!!! Even combining “Still Digging” & “K” still not getting a link. Assume its partly because I’m not a physicist. Like someone else I keep getting US fraternities when I search so presumably searching wrong terms (for hours now!). giving up……..
If you want to leave an email/twitter address I can drop a bigger clue!
If you’re getting US fraternities, you’re really very close. Dig deeper down the search responses, or try to guess an extra suitable term in the search.
Got all the parts blah blah blah! I give up, my head hurts and I don’t want another sleepless night! Somebody hint me, please!
Vixen7867@gmail.com
At last! Would have been #1 if I had paid more attention to Tompkins instead of Resnick and Halliday.
I hope we’ll get some puzzles that require physics concepts instead of just Google…..
165. Googling to find the phrase took longer than solving the cryptograms and the figure.
ARG!!!! Had the right answer yesterday morning but I evidently typed it in wrong! Out of frustration I tried again today and, boom!, #163. Stupid fat fingers! (or should that be “stupid and fat fingers?” 😉
By the way, did anybody else try finding the keywords used for the ciphers? Didn’t help in the slightest but satisfying anyway!
Yes, I got the 2nd part first, spotted the keyword and so correctly guessed the key to the 1st part. #98, down from #36 because I took the symbols too literally
Got it! I suppose it was funny in the first place. But after you’ve spent a while looking for something really clever, it was a bit of a disappointment to find it in a Wiki article.
Thanks to Mat W and his 6:45 comment, I finally got the last step and #184. Still that’s way better than my position on puzzles 1 and 2.
Well, after getting about 95% towards the answer in the first couple of hours, then being completely stumped by the final hurdle, it’s very, very pleasing to finally get it (after a good bit of googling)… That was hard! (No.187).
Is it fair to say that the 3-6-2-8-8 phrase is not a joke in itself, but that searching for a joke online, using something from the picture, ought to help to find the phrase? ie the phrase relates to a joke but is not the joke itself.
Yes, agreed. The phrase that contains the answer is a rather tenuous link. I enjoyed the encrypted parts and all the other links though. Very satisfying.
#203
Really?
A good puzzle is supposed to be satisfying and feel obvious once you know the answer. That’s tenuous at best.
What I actually meant, just above, was that the initial code cracking and working out the links to the information in the square was the satisfying part! The last part was just frustrating. Having said that, I’m sure the folks at GCHQ have to deal with far more tenuous links than this in their line of work.
#204 Wow after almost two days of searching and reading finally found! Indeed you need to google & google to find this!
Not sure I agree. The final leap was certainly not easy, but in the end I think it all connects rather well. Throughout the puzzle hinges (big clue coming, but surely everyone knows this by now) on the the two things that are most prominent about scientific papers – their titles and authors. That’s not just the connection between the codes and the picture, but also the link to the final answer.
Well in the final step I had to forget about the theories and these names and search for something else. In fact, I had to search twice to get the phrase
212 – at least I can put my mind back to doing proper work. Thanks to my old professors Bowley and Merrifield for a video related to all this. Although I would have been more thankful if I’d heard about the joke back when I was at Uni.
STILL keep coming back to it……. large parts of two days & nights wasted & sick of searching google! Still not got it. Keep checking comments for new clues & trying new searches to no avail .Hope next week’s is better involving less random searching on Google
#219 Hmmm. Too much googling, but you’ll know it when you see it!
#221 finally, the agony is over! I was definitely tryng way too hard with the final step.
rαofL!
I couldn’t get anywhere with the picture yesterday, then came back to it today and realised that I’d missed out half of the lines from the ciphers. When I saw the results of adding the new lines I recalled the “joke” I’d once heard and was able to search Wikipedia for the required phrase.
The guy early on who said it was just logic was advertising red herrings. Cost me hours. Personally I prefer puzzles to be a bit more self-sufficient than this one, but good to finally get it.
#250
finally!!
Yes! Cracked it at last, and I see only 246 folks did so before me!
Figuring out the link from the coded phrases to the picture was relatively easy with a bit of Googling. That gave an obvious connection that had me haring off down the wrong path for far too long. When I finally found the “joke” I actually remembered my old physics tutor referring to it.
If anyone wants help/hints email me at oedant@priest.com, letting me know how far you’ve got…
got the answer – just got to figure out why now! #309
Started yesterday afternoon EST and finally got the joke. #317.
I rather like the nature of this puzzle and find it coherently themed.
Half-seeing patterns then testing hypotheses with research, taking small bites leading to further clues and making the occasional leap of faith: Very much like physics!
I only found it necessary to decrypt one ciphertext (but did all three for fun anyway).
Rock on GCHQ
technically a pun rather than a joke tho’…
#330.
Boooooom! 3 down
At one point with this puzzle I nearly considered changing my name to Zacharias as well!
Yes at last!! #331! Glad to have my life back after two evenings of digging, searching, reading, headaches, sweat and tears
I do remember the story, too. Why didn’t I think of it earlier?
I found the ciphers easy, but the final step really frustrating. Looked in all the wrong places, but I guess it was almost like taking a short class. I learned a lot I didn’t know before.
Looking forward to #4!
At last!!!!! no 337 Very obscure though.
336. got it extremely tenuously, still don’t know what the phrase was though”!
oh right… yeah- do now- i assumed the joke was gonna be funnier than that
Its a Physics joke – its was never going be a rip-roarer
#344
Did any one else notice an additional interesting pattern in the letters chosen
for each substitution cipher?
Spotted it! That’s a clever little ‘Easter egg’ and its skewed just enough so it won’t jump out at you.
#358
2 days of my life gone!!
I’m going for a lie down.
Well spotted Montmorency! That certainly copyrights it,doesn’t it!
2 minutes then 2 hours then 2 days.
Two weeks next?
Got it at last, #384 the comment from
LCrod
Oct 17, 2013 at 6:55 pm
helped solve this for me..
Got there after two sessions of an hour each, plus a moment of inspiration this morning. Just hope I can manage the next one within the week!
#392
I don’t think it would be giving too much away to say that the majority of the symbols in the image are unimportant.
I’m a PhD student in physics and I had NEVER come across this joke before today.
#393
Like most people here, solved the ciphers and diagram quickly and have then spent ages trying to Google the answer.
If you’re stuck, don’t give up. The answer can be found by going through the comments posted already.
#394
I’ve had most of it for days (like most people) – just never thought of googling the actual connections.
Never heard ‘the joke’ before.
I can sleep now though.
no 399. Thanks for all the subtle tips. Would never have worked it out other wise..
#415
Perhaps the “joke” would have been funny if i hadn’t taken so long to tell it to myself.
I’ve decoded the three phrases. I’ve got the picture figured out and how various things in the picture are connected. And I’ve also determined that certain things in the picture relate to certain phrases.
Things I don’t know:
-What 3,6,2,8,8 is about
-I’m guessing that there’s a certain significance to counting certain numbers of points with greek letters on them? Or are there only three of those points that are significant?
You are right that only three of the Greek letters are significant. Make “connections” between the right names (the crypograms will tell you which are the right names). Once you have the right three letters, a simple Google search will get you there.
Yay! #433 I am. Thanks for the hint!
Yes! At last! #449
Bring on puzzle 4
Ok. Not a joke at all. I suspect the papers might be more interesting…:-D
457 ❁⌒‿⌒❁
#472 and really embarrassed it took me so long. My PhD (23 years ago) was on integrable systems – one dimensional spin chain Hamiltonians. Just didn’t make the appropriate connections!
#489 – really enjoyed solving the puzzle
I discovered the answer prior to noticing how simple & well-constructed the diagram was, and how simply the cryptograms relate to the diagram. This puzzle is well-done, and its creators were very fair in blazing a simple trail of strong clues. Biggest obstacle for me: my own tendency to complicate things.
At last!!!! Got the phrases then made the links. Searches came up blank then I remembered what it I was supposed to enjoy…
I appreciate the several layers of structure that went into devising the puzzle, but it was only really the comments on fraternities above that made the connection for me to an unrelated publication. Maybe it would have helped if ALL the central elements of the diagram were greek letters than some which have distracting other meanings… never mind, but definitely less satisfying than puzzles 1 and 2, even though far fewer people have solved it.
Completely forgot to do this last week. Only #533? People are dropping like flies.
After reading the comments I’m surprised that the hardest part for people was the end. I had a Dickens of a time with the ciphers, assuming that they were not related to the diagram.
I’m also very impressed with people that found the right answer without finding the phrase? Can someone share with me how they pulled that off? I suspect it has something to do with the key to the ciphers, but I didn’t get it through a key, just the diagram.
wernerhahn@gmail.com
Forgot to mention, if you’ve gotten to this section of the comments and still can’t google the answer, don’t forget that you are searching for a really bad joke.
… that does not involve cookies
537…
thanks to werner and paul. now i can finally go to sleep
543
I started on this only late yesterday and got the cryptograms soon enough. But the final step came only after several re-readings of the comments today, and mainly thanks to Paul’s comment. ALready time for the 4th puzzle!
#553!
That was insanely hard to make the final link.
I found the comments of ‘K’ and john to be the most helpful. The final Google search terms are actually very simple (looking back on it!)
#554. I figured out the phrase long time ago, but couldn’t get the 6 letter word. Jonh’s hint helped me.
I think I’m the weird one here. I still haven’t figured out the phrases or the diagram, but some of the comments and the fact that it was a joke involving greek letters, made me guess correctly what this was. Now I just need to figure out how to decrypt those sentences…
‘L’, I don’t think it’s too much of a spoiler by now to say this:
You might be able to use the names in the diagram to give you a kick-start in de-coding the phrases.
#600
Thank you to everyone leaving hints.
#689
I suppose it could have originally been funny. And maybe not.
#695. Wow what a trail of crumbs. Thanks for the comments.
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